Women in Sales: Meet Me in Motion - Building Stronger Sales Relationships Through Movement

Welcome (00:03):

Welcome to Women in Sales, a podcast hosted by Jenni Lee Crocker, where we spotlight the voices, stories, and strategies shaping the future of sales. In each episode, Jenni Lee sits down with inspiring women across industries to share real experiences, practical insights, and lessons from their journeys to success. Now, let's get started.

Jenni Lee Crocker (00:30):

Hi, I'm Jenni Lee Crocker, and welcome to our podcast, Women in Sales. I have two great ladies joining me today. I have Kelly Crossman. Kelly is a senior underwriter at Hartford. She also shares my high school alma mater, Nansom and Suffolk Academy. And Julie Rison, my dear friend, my colleague, and a leader within our private client services group. Hi, ladies.

Julie Rison (00:56):

Hello.

Kelly Crossman (00:57):

Hi. Thanks for having us.

Jenni Lee Crocker (01:00):

Thank you. It's our first podcast since, and I can't, I'm going to say this, but today we honor Dolly Parton because she's Dolly Parton. I can't go any further than that or I'll tear up, but let's just say we honor Dolly by talking about women and women doing great things today. I picked you two specifically for this topic because I want to talk about something that I truly believe in, and it's the concept of normalizing walks, talks, and exercise with your prospects and COIs. And my fancy name that Claude helped me come up with is Meet Me in Motion. And I think that if we can do more of this, we can do great things and build deeper relationships. But you two have great perspectives on this. So maybe both of you could comment on what inspired you to think about doing this yourselves, to do something other than the traditional coffee or lunch meeting. Kelly, you want to start?

Kelly Crossman (02:00):

Yeah, I would love to. Thanks again for having us on. I think from my perspective, my career is a little different. I started in underwriting, went to brokerage side, and then now I'm back in underwriting. And each time I had to redefine what success looks like and inherently take risks. And if I was able to take risks in my career, why wouldn't I take risks in developing relationships? And I think redefining what success looks like, especially on the production side for underwriting was really important for me. And I just started asking the question, active listening, what did my brokers like to do outside of work? How could I be more connected with them versus just sitting across a boardroom and just going down an agenda?

Jenni Lee Crocker (02:48):

I like that. Julie, what about you?

Julie Rison (02:52):

I think that the traditional boardroom office setting, there's a beginning and an end. And usually you have an hour, maybe an hour and a half to really kind of get in everything that you wanted to talk about. And typically, it's a very structured type of meeting, which means that you don't really get to know the people that you're trying to work for or work with, right? And so I think that if it's more of a casual type of setting, if it be, we've talked about going on walks, we've talked about I'm a tennis player, talked about maybe golfing, those types of things, there's, yeah, there's a beginning and an end, but you get to know the individuals that you're working with or going to be working around. I think it's a lot easier to get to know them on a personal basis and find out, to Kelly's point, really what their interests are and what makes them tick and just get to know them on a personal level.

Jenni Lee Crocker (03:39):

Right. So I have had the opportunity to have a Meet Me in Motion meeting with both of you all. And I'm going to state my theory and have you all test it for me. I feel like breaking sweat with someone deepens the relationship faster than breaking bread. And my example, Kelly, maybe you could talk about how we met and I'd love to hear your perspectives on this. I think a sweat gets you to a faster level of trust.

Kelly Crossman (04:08):

I completely agree. I think it takes away the formality of what a normal business meeting usually brings to the table. Generally, you mentioned how we met. So I received Jenni Lee's contact information and was told she loves to go on a walk. She loves to have movement. And I was like, "Okay, perfect. I love to do yoga. I love to do Pilates. Let's try something new together. We ended up doing a yoga sculpt...

Jenni Lee Crocker (04:33):

That's a key word.

Kelly Crossman (04:35):

Unbeknownst to us, also heated. So I think it was already 90 degrees outside and we willingly went into this class that was 95 degrees and spent an hour and five minutes trying to learn how to breathe. And I think that really brought us closer together, just those moments in between sets of looking each other in the eye in the mirror or looking next to each other being like, "How are these people doing all these burpees?" It just creates a deeper level of understanding and really just creates a moment together.

Jenni Lee Crocker (05:07):

Sure. I felt like I could call you for anything after that. We died a little together.

Kelly Crossman (05:11):

My soul is still on that mat. <laugh> That's right.

Jenni Lee Crocker (05:14):

So Julie, test my theory.

Julie Rison (05:16):

Yeah. I mean, I think you and I have gone on walks. I've, you know, seen COIs at tennis and done a lot of golf events and that kind of thing. But I think that when you sweat together, you become a little bit more vulnerable. You're not looking your best. You might be huffing and puffing. You're out of breath depending on what you're doing. And so I think that you just become a lot more vulnerable than if you were just sitting in a boardroom in front of a PowerPoint presentation. So I think that those types of things, Jenni Lee and I, you and I, we actually talked about our families and we talked about our ambitions and our past and what we've learned as being women in this industry. I mean, you just kind of bond over certain things that you don't necessarily bond over when you're meeting in a office.

Jenni Lee Crocker (05:57):

So this is something where I like to learn from the guests on this podcast. I think I'm pretty great when it comes to a female COI or prospect. I feel a level of comfort to introduce the concept of, "Hey, would you like to go for a walk?" I know women are trying to, you know, juggle so much and 9 times out of 10, they'll say, "Yes, I would love that." Right? "I would love to go outside with you, take a walk and speak to you versus over coffee." They're trying to get into movement too. It's not just us. I struggle a little bit when it's a male prospect or COI and I don't know them really well. My fear is I'm going to ask a question, maybe look silly or foolish or they're going to go," What is this woman? or what is she thinking?" So tell me how to improve that. Tell me how you all have done this and I'm going to learn a little something today.

Kelly Crossman (06:51):

I will say from my perspective, I, of course, being client-facing, I am out probably 60% with men, 40% with women. And one thing that I learned essentially growing up in the insurance industry is that golf is such a game changer, literally and physically. That's where deals get done. That is where relationships develop. And the accessibility to golf is unfortunately very difficult, especially when you're playing in private co-ops or you have an event that you have to have an invitation for. So I find it a little bit difficult to get on the golf course. So something that I use for my male colleagues is I ask them how they supplement their golf game. Because they're not just going out and playing golf. There has to be some sort of weightlifting component, some sort of stretching component, something else that elevates the way that they play. And personally, I love yoga, and so I always challenge them to try a new supplement to their program. "How do you feel, John, if you spend an hour with me stretching, bringing movement, and doing poses that you normally wouldn't be doing? And how can that then correlate to a better golf score?" I take it as a little challenge to see if they can practice yoga and then implement that into their practice with golf.

Jenni Lee Crocker (08:08):

That's such a good idea for all of us to utilize. How's it received? Julie and I are dying to know. What's your hit rate?

Kelly Crossman (08:16):

I will say I'm not keeping a tracker right now on my hit rate because it is wildly low, but for those who are hip to the yoga, I have about five male agents that are already practicing yoga. I think it's amazing. And then I have my other agents where I'm just like, "Give it a try. It's called a practice for a reason. When you go on the golf course, you're also practicing. It's not a competition. It's not who can hold the pose the longest. It's just an opportunity for us to be together and to do something that will ultimately benefit us in the end." And usually it's received really well, you know - Love a challenge.

Jenni Lee Crocker (08:54):

Julie, i've got a great question for you. You're, Julie's a great tennis player. She's also a competitive woman. I know this. Do you take clients and prospects out to play tennis? Because I'm trying to picture you - <laugh>. backing down and I can't see it. <laugh>

Julie Rison (09:10):

Well, I have to kind of dial back my competitiveness a little bit, right? Not unless they're a lot better than me, then I need to ramp it up a bit. But I do, and it's actually COIs, Centers of Influence, is just people that we share a lot of the same type of clients. It's a good kind of activity to be able to bond over of different teams that we've played or different tournaments that we've played or different vacations that we've done. And so it's those types of things that we've bonded over. I do have to quickly say too, that just last week I was up at the US Open and meeting with one of our private client carriers, and the president of this private client carrier is a female golfer. And we were talking about playing with men and how intimidating it can be as a female.

Julie Rison (09:52):

And in tournaments, women get advantage on the tees, you know? And so if you can hit a good drive, then you can be beneficial, right, on that team. But the one thing that she kept saying is, "on a golf course, no one cares. You know the rules, and as long as you can keep up pace, no one cares how you play. No one cares how many strokes, you know, you hit. Nobody cares where the ball is. You just keep up with play and you have a good time and the rest kind of falls into place. Everybody's focused on what they're hitting. In between the shots, you can have those great conversations and you can have those bonding moments about how you missed that putt or whatever." But the thing is, I think that it was a great message for me to hear because it can be very intimidating because most foursomes you see out there are going to be men. And so it's nice to hear another woman just say, "No one cares. Just go out and play your game and have a good time."

Jenni Lee Crocker (10:48):

It's the truth of so many things though about sports and athletics. For the most part, nobody cares.

Julie Rison (10:55):

No one cares. No one cares what you hit. It's a great reminder.

Jenni Lee Crocker (10:59):

It's a great point. But I think if you all were talking to other producers about this concept, what advice would you give them? I know when I think about it, it is shocking how many people take me up on it. This afternoon, in fact, a woman who went for a walk with me about two months ago, great prospect for our firm, actually emailed me over the weekend and said, "I would like to go for a walk again. Would you be willing?" And of course, I'm like, "Yes." So now I'm seeing almost the reciprocity of people enjoy a walk where we can deepen relationship and talk some business. It is a brilliant concept that if more people would adopt, I would love that for them. So talk to me about your process. What would you say to other producers?

Julie Rison (11:48):

For me, I think, honestly, it's not the point of asking for business or that's not the primary focus of this, right? And so I think sometimes when you're in just in business mode and business mentality that people think, "Oh, that's the only reason that they're asking me to go on a walk, or they're asking me to meet, or asking me to go to lunch, or asking me to go to coffee." That's the only reason where I think that if you actually go on a walk or you do some kind of physical activity, that's the primary focus. The other stuff is just ancillary. It's like icing on the cake. So I think that it's one of those things that if you can start to do activities like that, physical activities, it not only is benefiting the relationship, but it's actually going to benefit business as well.

Jenni Lee Crocker (12:33):

Kelly, what about you?

Kelly Crossman (12:35):

Yeah, I think that's a great point. And adding on to that is people remember how the interaction felt longer than they remember what the agenda is. And I think having one of those moments where you're both challenging yourself and you're pushing yourself to do something out of your comfort zone, it builds 10 times quicker than it would just sitting across the room in a boardroom table. And I always say this is, "if you don't ask, your answer's always going to be no. But if you ask, at least you have a shot at yes."

Jenni Lee Crocker (13:09):

Miss 100% of the shots you don't take, right?

Kelly Crossman (13:12):

Yep, exactly.

Jenni Lee Crocker (13:13):

Right. Ladies, I've loved this. I think this is such a great topic. I hope people get engaged in it. Another way of saying it, Kelly, is "to get a rainbow, you have to go through the rain", which is one of my favorite Dolly Parton comment quotes. And I'm grateful to have the two of you all here today. I love this talk and thank y'all both so much.

Julie Rison (13:33):

Thank you so much.

Kelly Crossman (13:34):

Thank you. Let's see where it goes.

Closing (13:39):

Thank you for listening to Women in Sales with Jenni Lee Crocker. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, share it with a colleague, and leave a review to help more women discover these conversations. We'll see you next time for more stories, insights, and inspiration from women leading the way in sales.